-
Teledave
-teledave-
Teledave
dislike disliked
Forum post - note No disrespect to your friend but
in forum BoaterTalk
by mvharrin
mvharrin But I didn't go in a sieve, my crew had my back, and going the line I meant to take and did there was no way I was going to drown. So not sure how a.drowning would look cleaner. people in kayaking seem to love giving other people shit about what risks...

likes -11
-teledave-
Teledave
like liked
Forum post - note This is an ignorant and naive response
in forum BoaterTalk
by fahimaz7
fahimaz7 Read what you wrote and then take a little while to comprehend what people are saying to you. While we all have run questionable routes and rapids, coming on here and bragging about something that didn't even go smooth for you is not the best way to d...

likes 1
-teledave-
Teledave
Posted a reply to - question Camping near Tellico
in forum BoaterTalk
Anyone know where we can camp this weekend close to Tellico? Planning on camping Saturday night and making a few laps before possibly shooting bck down to Ocoee for a run. Thanks!
Replies:
TCXJWAGONEER noteI have always camped
TCXJWAGONEER
at the putin. there is a fire ring next to the river. I have also slept in my car at a few of the pull offs. I miss the days of being able to camp at baby falls Tommy
-teledave- noteNorth River Area
Teledave
http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/cherokee/recreation/camping-cabins/recarea/?recid=35128&actid=34
dlluinstra noteIndian Boundary
dlluinstra
http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/cherokee/recreation/camping-cabins/recarea/?recid=35150&actid=29
hardboater noteBald River, Citico or Doublecamp are all options.
hardboater
Anything in the general vicinity of Tellico starts to get pretty busy this time of year, which is why I typically prefer the Citico/Doublecamp area due to sheer quantity of campsites.
roscoepwavetrain notecampground a few miles above upper put in
roscoepwavetrain
where the north river comes in. nice campground. NC side i think and there is a fee. KOA campground in tellico plains.
ICarrigg smileSounds like we have some options! Thank for all the input!
ICarrigg
lifeinmayberry noteCaney Creek
lifeinmayberry
We stay at Caney Creek on our Spring trip to the Tellico each year.
mossyback75 note8? USFS Campgrounds on River Road
mossyback75
Keep driving east up River Road past the put in for the Ledges. There are at least 8 USFS campgrounds on that road (more now b/c our TN Gazetteer did not even show all the new campgrounds built in the last 5 years). The first is the North River campground,...
-teledave-
Teledave
like liked
Forum post - note I've given up on the good ole days of not worrying about unattended stuff.
in forum BoaterTalk
by slimerboy
slimerboy Stolen items are posted on here all the time. Out of all the items taken that I've seen, all but one was unattended or not locked. I keep my boat locked in the back of my truck, locked to a tree, locked to whatever or I ask someone to watch it for me....

likes 2
-teledave-
Teledave
like liked
Forum post - note That's a great idea, especially at Wilson
in forum BoaterTalk
by cbkoontz
cbkoontz Wilson is generally a place where one gets their first real creeking experience, but it is also where people learn to follow a boat, or the line exactly as described to them and refuse to deviate from that line no matter how many times they run the creek. ...

likes 2
-teledave-
Teledave
Posted a reply to - note Wilson Creek Carnage (long)
in forum BoaterTalk
Firstly, a bit of a disclaimer. Although carnage is humorous and fun to watch there is always something to be learned by the experience. This took place during a lesson I was teaching on Wilson Creek. The group I was working with has worked on their hard s...
Replies:
nate-r questionHave you considered that our students reflect what we teach or dont teach? Now
nate-r
I'm not trying to be overly critical Wing I thin kyour doing great stuff! As an instructor/teacher when things dont go smoothly with my students I must at some point ask myself am I doing what I need to do for them to be #1 safe, #2 succesful, #3 not ...
Will_Carry th_upThe dude in the red boat did great!. likes 2
Will_Carry
They were kind of stacked up going over the drop but I can tell these boaters are good. Good call letting them pick their own way down. Wilson Creek is a good place to do that.
cbkoontz noteThat's a great idea, especially at Wilson likes 2
cbkoontz
Wilson is generally a place where one gets their first real creeking experience, but it is also where people learn to follow a boat, or the line exactly as described to them and refuse to deviate from that line no matter how many times they run the creek. ...
megues noteReflections from the Dad likes 5
megues
I was the Dad involved in the carnage this weekend. My two sons have been paddling for about three years now. They have been extremely fortunate to have had Chris and other instructors from the USNWC as well as 5 weeks of Kayaking each summer under the i...
-teledave- noteSeems like a great teaching/learning opportunity. likes 5
Teledave
I was actually talking to someone that I have "mentored" for the last couple of seasons earlier today. This person had a bit of a bad experience over the weekend paddling with another group becuase the leader insisted on them following his lines precisely ...
BMan1 questionWhat sort of backlash did you get and why? I honestly don't see anything
BMan1
wrong with your teaching approach (which is the right way to teach paddlers to think for themselves) or the very, very minor carnage that ensued (not sure you can call it carnage when everyone gets out of the hole and rolls up)
zahadum feedbackMost everything I know I learned running probe.
zahadum
Mostly, not to run probe. :) Seriously, though, I think it's good for students to learn that, on a river you already know, the leader's line is a suggestion, not a command. I always tell folks boating with me for the first time not to follow ...
TeamTrom feedbackThat was great, it makes me regret unfollowing you on facebook when you turned into a penis likes 1
TeamTrom
Seriously though, great post and explanation...you don't have anything to feel guilty about there.
-teledave-
Teledave
Posted a reply to - th_up That's a review I can use likes 1
in forum BoaterTalk
Some thing us ''Pro's'' or ''Employees'' just try to sell stuff - which is funny, because many of us are the hardest to please in the world and give only the positives we believe in. Sceptics are rampant here o...
Replies:
-teledave- noteSomething I have to give Clay credit for, likes 1
Teledave
I have never seen Clay (or any other JK pro for that matter) slam another brand of boats. In fact, I have seen Clay chime in on many "What boat should I get?" threads where he gave many options from other companies as good boats to check out. Old models, n...
McBain feedback<No Subject>
McBain
Keep the width! I like how it planes up better with it. After a session or two in the boat, I was used to it. It wasn't a problem, just something I noticed. And I'd rather have a boat that does better on whitewater than flatwater. I think I go...
-teledave-
Teledave
like liked
Forum post - note Rainy Southeast Weekend Video
in forum BoaterTalk
by ryanmac94
ryanmac94 Got a 20 inch Green lap, a lap on the North Fork of the French Broad, 2 laps on Toxaway put-in slide, 2 high water runs on Wilsons, and to finish off the trip a lap on Gragg Prong. Check it out here! https://vimeo.com/65601619

likes 1
-teledave-
Teledave
Updated User Page:
Teledave - Teledave
-teledave-
Teledave
like liked
Forum post - disagree Iv'e been checking out the Karma lately and
in forum BoaterTalk
by spiceypablo
spiceypablo I think it is a really nice creeker design, handles well and inspires confidence.I have paddled both Lrg and Med sizes. But in my opinion, there outfitting is gimicky and cheap. I don't like how the back band rides so high up on my back and the bulkhe...

likes 2
-teledave-
Teledave
like liked
Forum post - smile Jackson's new shipping policy is pretty awesome too......
in forum BoaterTalk
by cbkoontz
cbkoontz Creek boats can be picked up at the factory, or delivered directly to a pin in nutcracker ;)

likes 6
-teledave-
Teledave
Posted a reply to - note Where can we see the new dagger boat, is it a creeker?
in forum BoaterTalk
Replies:
-teledave- noteJust a wild guess here,
Teledave
I'm not going to bother Googling it but www.dagger.com would be my first guess. And no it's not a creek boat, it's a playboat.
-teledave-
Teledave
Posted - Jackson 4Fun 2008 version w/Skirt
for sale for $250
Jackson Kayak 4 Fun (Playboat)
Green 2008 4Fun, cracked on right front sidewall and repaired with G-Flex inside & out with 3 layers of fiberglass on the inside. Repair has held for over a year now, its probably sturdier than the rest of the boat; I just want something new. Includes Swe...
-teledave-
Teledave
Posted a reply to - note Dagger Nomad 8.5 vs Jackson Karma M
in forum BoaterTalk
Looking for any feedback from someone who has paddled both boats. Any advantage or disadvantage of one to the other? Will be using the boat on class III-IV creeking and bigger water. I am 5'7" and 185lbs. Thanks
Replies:
jakep smileKarma, TKO, Round 3
jakep
COboat noteNomad 8.5 is the best creeker ever...
COboat
Often imitated, never repeated. But that's just my opinion - take them both out and see what you like better. The internet can't tell you what you are going to like better, you have to figure that out for yourself. There aren't really ...
bryantb noteWhat do you paddle now?
bryantb
The Karma is a planing hull creeker whereas the Nomad is displacement. Both will work, but if you're used to planing hull playboats then there's a good chance you'll prefer a planing hull creek boat. A lot has been said on the differences (d...
-teledave- noteNomad has Dagger outfitting, likes 1
Teledave
Karma has Jackson outfitting. I'm not going to say one is better than the other, but they are VERY different. People generally either love or hate Jackson's outfitting. DEMO!
sc-vapaddler noteAfter paddling both (and not owning either)......(unbiased?)...
sc-vapaddler
I thought they were both generally good at what they are designed for. Jackson outfitting compared to dagger's is hard to do now, as well. I paddled the older one so I can't say anything about the new Dagger Ergo stuff. That said, here are some...
milkwasabadchoice th_upI really like both
milkwasabadchoice
And like both much better than the shiva and stomper and recon. The medium karma paddles smaller than the nomad and, of course, the bigger is a good bit bigger. I am your size and bought a large karma, but it hasn't felt too big yet. The karmas pad...
tybo99 noteI'm the same size. Love the Nomad
tybo99
Had one for several years now. Sized very well for us. Handles big water and creeks flawlessly. Great warranty too.
-teledave-
Teledave
like liked
Forum post - more Boating Not Banned. Park management error...
in forum BoaterTalk
by pmress
pmress Here is an email relpy from the park's management: Mr. Ress, Please accept my sincere apology for the mix up here at Old Stone Fort State Park this past Sunday. We do indeed allow kayaking on the Duck River here. The Ranger you spoke with is rel...

likes 1
-teledave-
Teledave
Posted a reply to - warning Walking The Railroad to Stackhouse Caution
in forum BoaterTalk
Advising folks to walk the railroad track after running Big Laurel up river to Stackhouse is bad advice. The "railroad Nazi's" of the Norfolk-Southern Railroad will ticket you as the rail-line is "posted". These thugs are in a white pickup which you...
Replies:
NoYouAre questionJust curious
NoYouAre
How does this work? What if I tell the truck guys my name is George Vanderbilt and they can send my ticket to 1 Lodge St, Asheville, NC. Do they follow you to your vehicle? If you are just trespassing, won't you be long gone by the time the police sho...
-teledave- questionA question.
Teledave
Has this (being cited/fined or even warned in writing) actually happened to anyone on this stretch of track? Firsthand accounts, rumors, or heresay are appreciated.
eddaugherty noteWhy don't more folks just paddle out to Hot Springs? likes 2
eddaugherty
I'd rather float downstream than walk the tracks with a boat on my shoulder anyway. And the shuttle from the Laurel to Hot Springs is faster than driving down to Stackhouse. Maybe I am missing something cool about the walk up?
BLUEEZ notelast week, Keith and I saw an Osprey and an Eagle on the windy flats.
BLUEEZ
It is good exercise and quite beautiful if you pay attention to what's there to see. :)
-teledave-
Teledave
Posted a reply to - note What skills should someone possess if they are leading first timers down a run?
in forum BoaterTalk
Both hard skills and soft skills? I have been thinking about this a lot lately and am curious from both the perspective of those that lead and those that are being lead as well. Chris
Replies:
halfthepaddle notelots of things, in an ideal world likes 1
halfthepaddle
The person would know all the usual main lines, any alternate sneak lines, as well as recent info on changes (new wood, rocks moving, etc). There should be multiple people with that experience in the group. They would know the way out of a run if things ...
MWright notethree prominent things for me..
MWright
1. Know what you know and know what you don't know. If you think you know the line, scout the damn rapid, don't put you and your crews life at risk. 2. When I was following people sometimes people would go into such detail about a rapid that I ...
SwimmerBill noterecognize who is in over their head early & who is running out of gas
SwimmerBill
& who is starting to get too cold to perform well and then take whatever action is needed like suggest they walk out, get them on the stern of a smooth boater and ask said boater to take easy lines, take breaks for food. [especially make sure they aren...
arrmike noteI don't really buy into the "leading people down" thing. likes 2
arrmike
I believe in fostering the learning of others, getting people to step up their skill level incrementally, paddling easier water to support others' progression, etc.....but I see too much of paddlers thinking they can paddle anything as long as someone...
wek207 noteAs a leader, embrace your inner dog (kayak) whisperer--calm, assertive energy likes 2
WhiteWaterWendy
As a leader, I try to encourage people to read their own water and to keep the descriptions of rapids concise. I think it is important to be calm, assertive, and encouraging (not unlike how the dog whisperer describes what he does). I tend to gravitate t...
Pinecricker noteShould be a solid enough boater that they are not going to swim...
Pinecricker
... I don't think of the leader as necessarily being responsible for providing the line that any one else follows as much as being the tip of a safety pyramid. For example, if the second boater swims, then the lead boater can assist. But if the lea...
Will_Carry smileIf you have to ask, then your not ready.
Will_Carry
goodBones noteso many variables... likes 1
goodBones
...it depends a bit on whether 'first timer' means literally newbie boater's first run on class II or somebody stepping up, and even then, are they stepping up to class III, IV or V? The only constant I see in that range is the leader nee...
-teledave- noteI'm going to go this way,
Teledave
if something bad happens to me you might want to try a different line.
hardboater feedbackIMO, top of the list is an ability to provide enough information without providing too much.
hardboater
-teledave-
Teledave
Posted a reply to - sad R.I.P. George Jones
in forum Liquid Lounge
Replies:
Will_Carry noteI saw George Jones playing with Guy Clark in 1977.
Will_Carry
George was so drunk that he could hardly sing, at first. After the first song he did fine. The rest of the show was great.
-teledave- noteI would love to see a movie made
Teledave
about his antics during the 70-90's time period. It could have been tragic, but some of the stuff he did when he was out of his mind intoxicated was hillarious. It's really amazing that he lived thorugh those years.
ezwater noteTwo Dead Guys H-Aled on Matlock this morning. Old episode, Jones and Andy.
ezwater
-teledave-
Teledave
Posted a reply to - note what you meant to say was thank you :-) likes 3
in forum BoaterTalk
The relicensing on the Nantahala was such a bigger picture than just what we kayakers wanted - even though we think we should have priority.... In figuring out when to spill water on the Cascades/Upper Nantahala, consideration had to be made for summer lak...
Replies:
TCXJWAGONEER noteWell said
TCXJWAGONEER
So what is the deal with Junk Yard? New pin spot? any pics or vid? Thanks, Tommy
soshield noteNo.... I pretty much feel we got shafted
soshield
"consideration had to be made for summer lake levels, peak electricity demand, environmental issues, the downstream recreational traffic and a list that goes on for a long time." 1.Summer Lake levels: Any of you math whiz types out there able to calculat...
-teledave- noteI'm somewhere in between shafted and your welcome.
Teledave
Having any scheduled releases are better than none at all, so I get that. But the patting AW on the back for what they delivered is way over the top becuase the releases are nominal at best.
-teledave-
Teledave
Posted a new topic - angry Break In at Tellico Ledges Put-In
Just a heads up, my car was broken into at the Ledges put-in yesterday. Smashed window, grabbed my i-pod and a canvas bag of clothes, went through the glove compartment. Obviously very hurried because a lot of stuff was left that was visible from just look...
in forum BoaterTalk
-teledave-
Teledave
Posted a reply to - note Big laurel +3"@9:30am
in forum BoaterTalk
Replies:
-teledave- noteThanks for the postings!
Teledave
BL was $$$ yesterday at 6", so much fun and such a beautiful day.
-teledave-
Teledave
Posted a reply to - note WaveSport Ethos - Any experience/opinons
in forum BoaterTalk
I am newbie looking for a stater WW boat. We have some large creeks with lots of volume but not a lot of WW. Maybe some class 1-2 stuff but a whole lot of pretty flat high volume water with a bit of current between. I was thinking a X-Over. I thought...
Replies:
waterdreams noteI am affiliated but...
waterdreams
...it's one amongst many that I believe is built with whitewater safety and comfort in mind, that has great storage and a drop down skeg for the flats or swirly flats such as found in canyon runs. It has a full bulkhead, as opposed to foot pegs, and a...
-teledave- noteI paddled one briefly in a demo.
Teledave
At the Nantahala, through Lesser Wesser (Class III); and it was rock solid. If all you are talking about is Class II to easy III then I would say that it is a good choice.
FordTrax noteThanks
FordTrax
I realize these cross-overs will be a compromise boat, but I am thinking for my needs for running the class 1-2 creeks with much flat water and the rivers here with large stretches of high volume moving water with some class 1-2 rapids kind of far apart th...
-teledave-
Teledave
Posted a reply to - question Minimum Level on the Little River above Townsend Gauge?
in forum BoaterTalk
Boating Beta puts the minimum level for the Sinks section of the Little River using the Townsend gauge at 2.4' (which correlates with about 400 cfs on that gauge). Recently, 2.4' on the Townsend gauge correlated with 670 cfs on the Maryville gau...
Replies:
bankfull1 feedbackReasonable minimum is 2.4-2.5
bankfull1
I have run it down to 2.0 feet years ago out of desparation. It is not running below 2.4 for sure. Now that I am busier in life and don't feel the urge to run the Little all the time, I don't go below 2.6 and really prefer to see at least 2.7-2...
duckypaddler smile2.0 Bare ass min likes 1
duckypaddler
1.8 Sinks to eddy out 2.0 Sinks full run 2.2 min boat abuse if you know low water lines 2.35 lowest to really even call it whitewater 2.4-2.5 most peoples min
-teledave- noteWhat the above posters have said, with a caveat
Teledave
Assuming equal distribution between the Tremont side and the Little River proper. You can run it lower if you catch a strom that only hits the Little drainage so that the majority of the water hitting the gauge is coming from the Little rather than Tremont...
whtwtroc noteThanks for the Input
whtwtroc
-teledave-
Teledave
Posted a new topic - note Can't Edit GearSwap listing
The browser shows me the following address http://boatertalk.com/gear/edit-gear.php?gid=70239 Internet Explorer then gives me the following : The website cannot display the page HTTP 500 Most likely causes: â¢The website is under mai...
in forum Bugs and Suggestions
-teledave-
Teledave
Posted a reply to - gack Smokies visuals?
in forum BoaterTalk
Replies:
cravincreeks feedbackTremont "low"
cravincreeks
I didn't get a number reading from the gauge, but it was low enough to make my friends go to hike up Elkmont instead.
-teledave- noteI heard
Teledave
Big Creek 2.7 & 3.0, so I'm guessing it's somewhere in between those two, Greenbrier at 3' early this morning.
My Info
Teledave
Seymour, TN
Male Too Short
Too fat
Types of boats you paddle (eg. kayak, raft, C-1, squirt, etc.): Kayak-Nomad 8.5 & 4Fun OC-Mohawk Probe 14 Triple Saddle SUP-Imagine Surfer
First Season (year): 2006
Favorite Class: III
Favorite Runs: Whatever has water in it when I can be there, go to free flow runs are Little River, Greenbrier, Lower Big Creek, Big Laurel & Tellico. Summertime I can be found on the Pigeon weeknights and the Ocoee weekends.
Where I have paddled (in order):
French Broad-Del Rio-Bridgeport
Pigeon-Lower
Nantahala
USNWC
French Broad-Sec. 9
Upper Pigeon
Middle Ocoee
Tellico-below Jared's Knee
Tellico-Ledges
Little River-Elbow-Y
Little River-Elkmont-Metcalf Bottoms
Green-Upper
North River
Middle Fork Little Pigeon (Greenbrier)-Below Hwy 321
Daddy's/Obed/Emory-Devil's Breakfast Table to Nemo
Treemont-Below 1st one lane bridge
Little River-Sinks-Elbow
Middle Fork Little Pigeon (Greenbrier)-Confluence to Hwy 321
Upper Ocoee
2011
Clear Creek-Lilly to Nemo
Big Laurel
Lower Big Creek
Hiwassee Dries
Clear Fork
Big South Fork
Hiwassee
Daddy's Creek (Canyon to DBT)
2012
Crab Orchard
Clear Creek-Jett to Lilly
Upper Oconoluftee
Upper Nantahala

teledave@gmail.com 865-207-9607
Videos I Like
My Gallery
Gauges I watch
My Events
My GearSwap Listings
People who are following me
People I am following
Blogs and Trip Reports
My Reviews
My Current Gear